Before beginning the interview courteously given by Alessandro Alessandroni, I would like to personally thank the Maestro for his exceptional help and friendship.
I would also like to add that - considering by this time I have gained plenty if not too much experience in the fascinating area of film music - it is at all too often taken for granted how rare it is to find a fine human being and artist of such excellence in both capacities.
The person of whom I speak is that the musical artist Alessandroni, whom I have known well and had the privilege of becoming familiar with through his many scores and his exceptional work technique throughout the years, which corresponds indeed - and here is the rarity - with a man of extraordinary temperament, humanity and simplicity, all praiseworthy qualities, and to whom I would again like to stress how pleased I am to call him a true friend.
Dear Sandro, I am in your debt!
RZ: Good, Maestro, let's begin our chat. I'd like to first ask you about being born into the Alessandroni musical family.
AA: I would have to begin with my mother's town [in Viterbese], where my life as a little boy was spent growing up in the barber shop; as you know, in a small place, the barber shop is a central reference point for the town. When we were there, we had some instruments, the guitar, the mandolin; we didn't do very much business, but we played a lot.
RZ: How many years did this last?
AA: Well, this went on eleven, maybe twelve years. First I was taught to play the mandolin, and then I moved on from there. At the beginning I absorbed the native culture, the musical folk traditions of Viterbese, and of Lazio in general, then started my own methods with these instruments. After the mandolin, another friend of mine had begun to teaching me various techniques on the guitar. I was a quick learner and picked up a lot which allowed me after a year to go back out and perfectly perform the "Migliavacca technique," which everyone considers a 'test.' Ah yes, the Migliavacca for mandolin was very painstaking, or as they say, a trial by fire! After that I decided to have a go with the accordion. Then there was the announcement of the arrival of a marinaretti band. Their current maestro told me that I had lips made for playing the bass-tuba, and therefore... I picked up the bass-tuba. But I wasn't content with that-- I got together with my other colleagues who played the saxophone. They made jazz music, and that really pleased me even more. Seeing this, the leader was pleased enough to entrust me with the tenor sax. Well, that was just my start, my first entrance into the world of music.
RZ: And from there came the "Caravels" [the first official group created by Alessandroni]?
AA: Ah yes, from there the "Caravels," though it wasn't a quick leap; I pushed myself constantly to the extent that I dedicated everything to studying, studying a lot, to achieve a musical sound that pleased me. I began the classics, Mozart, Haydn, along those lines. I found myself successfully perfecting the techniques. The guitar - which must be studied precisely and carefully - was to come along a little later, after I felt that I was forcing myself successfully to become professional. I met with some people who sent for me, and soon I was doing things for them.
RZ: And then you formed your first group?
AA: Yes. I played one night in this little place, and in came Nora Orlandi, who already had a quartet, and said, "Why don't we put together a quintet?" They accepted, and things just went along after that. I changed the name of the quartet, who had been called the "2+2 Quartet." Then after that I created "I Cantori Moderni" ["The Modern Singers"], a chorus of singers I hand picked.
RZ: And you blessed them with your own distinctive musical style, which Italian audiences have become accustomed to, and listen to, and recognize.
AA: Yes.
RZ: If we could just talk a little more about your Cantori Moderni. They aren't around now - I mean by now they have been dissolved - isn't this so?
AA: Yes, by now I've sold and closed everything.
RZ: Here, we can say, is a group unlike any other; a great number of the Cantori Moderni were voices which became legendary. I'm referring to Edda [Dell'Orso], Gianna [Spagnulo], Raoul, your wife Giulia, and others of a similar caliber.
AA: Yes, definitely, an ensemble of outstanding voices.
RZ: How did you go about putting that together?
AA: Well, that was for a request in Pisano [Franco], where they asked me to add on - for some people looking for a job, who wanted something to do - with other voices in the quartet whom I already had around for a couple of years, in the "Caravels." I started to call people whom I believed would be suitable, and this is how I found myself overseeing the birth of the "Cantori Moderni."
RZ: How many were there?
AA: Well, we began with six, 3+3, then with 4+4, then 6+6, then also 8+8, according to the requirements of scores which we were called to perform.
RZ: I'd like to ask you now a little about the relationship between you and your wife Giulia ["Julie"]; it appears, if I'm correct, that you're a close, affectionate couple, as borne out by the great work you've done together.
AA: Yes, that's true. There are those I've worked with where a fine relationship can become too constricted; but she's certainly a strong, talented professional. I think that sometimes I've had to work with people who are lacking, to me, because they have to work too hard to sustain just a little bit of talent, but then also I had Enzo Gioieni, a skillful, diplomatic clarinetist who accomplished a lot in my opinion. Indeed, between Giulia and myself, we've done almost everything! From little projects... to just about everything! If you remember the famous TV theme with Fred Bongusto and Minnie Minoprio... well, the voice of Minoprio was Giulia's!
RZ: The kitten...!
AA: Indeed! The kitten; that wasn't Minnie Minoprio... that was Giulia!
RZ: When you said "...we've done almost everything," I think you're absolutely correct, and there really are none of your colleagues now who can boast of the quantity and variety of the experiences you've had. Composer, writer, working for cinema, for television, for radio...
AA: For the theater! I played "in the pit," I sang in the front of the stage, in the theater, I was getting intoxicated from everything!
RZ: When did you explore the area of soundtracks for which you both performed and, in many instances, created?
AA: I began that also very, very quickly. At that time [the late '50, early '60], in Rome there was a Cooperative which established and put together an orchestra for film score recording; they worked at Cinefonico of Cinecitt…, with Fonolux, in some old rooms dedicated to writing and researching about the musical aspects of film...
RZ : I think, roughly, in the early '60s, I believe...
AA: Yes, correct; I think also at first, around '58...
RZ: And all of you played a variety of instruments...
AA: Yes, but of all the instruments which I picked up, there was always one which I called my own, the guitar. With the string instruments there, I played a little of everything... I remember there were some which were quite in fashion then...
RZ: ... the sitar!
AA: Right, the sitar. I had only myself to play it, and I always had to call upon myself to do the performances of it.
RZ: I remember your beautiful passages for sitar for Riz Ortolani, in the main titles for the film, Tenderly.
AA: Exactly!
RZ: And speaking of cinema, this brings us to the immortal Fistful of Dollars. What started the legendary use of whistle and guitar?
AA: It's very simple. Ennio [Morricone] called me and said, "Sandro, come in here a moment, in the room, and bring someone who can do some whistling." Well, there was indeed this whistler, who just had less than nothing to do at the time; but think of what a great future he had after that. When we watched the film, well, I don't think there was anyone around who thought it was going to make a dime. As a matter of fact, for a while it remained tied up with finances.
RZ: Notwithstanding that, what success... the frenzy!
AA: Oh, yes; after A Fistful of Dollars everyone wasted little time at all to come up with imitations, dozens and dozens of scores which to an extent mimicked the sounds and the styles of that one. There aren't any master composers from that era who didn't write one!
RZ: Which leads me to your other 'instrument,' namely the whistle! Indeed, there's something unusual about the use of the whistle; there are very few, I believe, who really know how to use it. And with you the whistle is so recognizable, like a factory brand!
AA: But no, there were also other whistlers who could whistle very well. You see, I have to tell people the special way that consists of emitting the sound of the whistle - almost using 100% of sound, and very little air. When you're doing it for the microphone and for the recording, it's really a very positive method; it's ideal. The sound seems clean, as compared to other types of orchestra instruments.
RZ: And actually your whistle "is" music with all of those effects.
AA: Exactly! My whistling is written as music; when I play must be very careful with keeping the tune!
RZ: You're usually remembered principally for the collaborations you had with Morricone, but that isn't true, isn't fair. There were many, many times you participated in the recording of music of other writers; one that comes to mind, for example, is [Armando] Trovajoli for Seven Men of Gold. How could that score exist without Alessandroni?
AA: Well, yes, thank you; that's true. I'm very proud of those works. Think about even in Japan, with the young in particular, they're enthusiastic about that kind of music. I've gotten recognition and appreciation for some of my work around the whole world.
RZ : By the way, I should add and stress that Italian composers owe a lot to the work of Alessandro Alessandroni. This isn't just for the "spaghetti western sound," a genuine and classic legend of our cinema in the '60s and '70s, but also the sonic and musical influence of many, many scores. But let's get to Alessandroni the composer for cinema. When did you begin writing your own scores? What was your first soundtrack?
AA: Oh, that, let me think... I believe my first soundtrack... that was done for... for a really rotten excuse for a film! (laughs) It belonged to a film in a series... yes; but what was it called? Of the movie series... Ah! Well, I began that, after I found myself growing tired of collaborations, which many times seemed gratuitous, without ever getting much money back after I had supplied ideas, solutions, sounds. Yes, I've had others say the same kind of thing to me, that there came the moment where they had begun to work for me but had to go work with composers besides me.
RZ: And your composer colleagues have had the same thing happen?
AA: Well, I must say they were very, very disappointed. Another composer was coming to this kind of work; and not just a regular composer, but a special man who knew his art very well! So I found we had to deal with the nasty words, the fights, the difficulties... well, we'd go cry.
RZ: Tell us a little about the relationship between editors and composers. What do you think?
AA: God, what can I tell you? The editors are those who always hold the knife by the handle; we, the composers, find ourselves stretched out under the blade. Always. And I've tried to say everything about it I can. The editors take the majority of the orders; then there's the SIAE [the union]... in short, for us it's a devastating force that continues in creative areas... but that's how it is, and they want to keep doing it this way.
RZ: Have you had experiences, still speaking of editors, where you've been refused some members of the orchestra for financial reasons?
AA: Oh, well, to me it looks like that's very common, not just with me, but with all the other composers. It comes up all the time. The editor is always and indisputably the commercial person who thinks of spending a little and earning a lot. The music composers, instead, want to maintain their own internal dynamic, as a function of the expression of their own ideas and their own creativity. In short, it's a continuing struggle.
RZ: That brings us to another fact. The world of record collectors - who don't always coincide with the film editors - works according to its own standards; they want to say, in other words, that quite often your name doesn't appear on the album covers. And yet, without you...
AA: Ah yes, I know what you're talking about. That had really always been my fault. It hadn't really ever been addressed. It's my fault, certainly. It has been flattering to have people always asking again for my name, requesting us who have written and worked on albums. One of my colleagues [Nora Orlandi] instead has always been very attentive to it and always demands it. I wasn't ever really too concerned about it myself.
RZ: We go now to an often-asked question, and I'd like to know your opinion in this respect. After looking back today at the golden age of Italian film music thirty years later, which things have changed in that area, namely for those who write and perform?
AA: Which things have changed? Everything! Completely! When you used to go to a room to do the score, there was always a full orchestra in there, with "real" instruments, acoustic. Also even if I hadn't written for tons of films, I still often had an orchestra layout of 40-50 members. Today doing that is unthinkable. The composers, limited by costs, and pushed by the arrival of the novelty of electronics, have become diverse groups; everything is done under the demands of others, and we bring to editors our proposals of what can be done for a reasonable cost. It's absolutely true that electronic music has become overused; a number of editors are starting again to accept acoustic music. But with electronics, they're always, always with us, but with the subsequent addition of real instruments by far it always turns out to be more alive, more real. But this really isn't the same thing as the first way, with just the orchestra. It's not more so, certainly.
RZ: Do you remember how this phenomenon became considered so widely for use in the Italian cinema, or did that simply follow the use of stereo?
AA: No, no, it certainly came along with stereo, but it also carries different characteristics.
RZ: I'm going to mention some names, and you tell me the first things which immediately come to mind, okay?
AA: But what are you doing, Roberto?!
RZ : First name-- Francesco De Masi.
AA: Good musician! A great friend. Bravo! What a person and what a musician. A talented orchestrator and arranger.
RZ: One of your colleagues, Bruno [Battisti D'Amario].
AA: Ah yes, Bruno; a friend, certainly. We've played music so many times together!
RZ: Luis [Bacalov].
AA: A flawless instinct. And a perfect pianist. And also an excellent arranger, a true musician.
RZ: Ennio [Morricone].
AA: Ah, well, what do you want me to say; I really don't have to say anything. I've been with him since the beginning, when Ennio was doing arrangements for radio.
RZ: Edda [Dell'Orso].
AA: Edda! That may not be a rare kind of instrument, but she's one of a kind! Kudos to her. I give her so much credit, a lot more than the recognition which she has usually been given. And it really isn't fair. In certain respects, perhaps, there has been more attention devoted to me with my whistle, than that which is given to Edda and her voice, and that's terribly wrong. I adore her voice, which - I repeat - is considered unique around the world. It makes me happy to say that we have a beautiful friendship.
RZ: Good. Sandro, I don't want to take up any more of your time. Do you have any final thoughts?
AA: Well, on that note, I'd like to give a preview: I was contacted for the display of my paintings at an exhibition, which is coming up quickly in Rome, dedicated to people of the cinema who paint. They have asked me to consent to the featuring of my works, and it's such an important source of enjoyment to me!
RZ: Congratulations! When and where?
AA: From December 15 to January 25 at the Piazza del Popolo.
RZ: Alessandroni the painter, too? But that's extraordinary!
AA: If you say so!
RZ: Thanks for your courtesy and your kind words. I wish you well and hope we have the pleasure of meeting again soon. In conclusion, I would like to add for those who follow and collect film music that Alessandroni and I have been preparing another CD with complete works, for cinema and non-cinema, which will be released - with a little luck - sometime in 1999.
AA: Yes, certainly. It's completely our project. We'll just have to see.
RZ: Very well, we'll finish this interview with a dedication to our friends at ScoreLogue.
AA: I'd like to greet your editor friends, whom I would like to think I will meet and get to know, and I'd like to thank them for the hospitality of their magazine.
RZ: Well, I think they will be very happy with what you said, Sandro. Thanks again, and farewell.
AA: Thank you, too; so long for now!
Alessandro Alessandroni Composer Filmography
Original Italian Text of the Interview
[Interview conducted at the Hotel "Augustus" of Montecatini Terme on November 28, 1998 by Roberto Zamori]
Translation by Nathaniel Thompson